Andy Chan, VP for Innovation and Career Development at Wake Forest University, joins Rod Danan to explain why more than 200 colleges have sent staff to study his office. They get into his 2013 TED talk "Career Services Must Die", why the boss matters more than the org chart, the ten-minute LinkedIn search that changed a writing class, curiosity conversations instead of networking, and what he'd fund first if he had to rebuild a career office from zero. The Unpulled Lever is an interview series on why schools don't act on career outcomes. New episodes every Tuesday.